Wednesday, June 13, 2007

"I have no doubt, (based on)what I have studied..that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers/participated in the killing."

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, from "The Mormons", declaring:

"I have no doubt, on the basis of what I have studied and learned, that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing."

He then also says:

“I pray that he(The Lord) can find a way to forgive those who took such a terrible action against their fellow beings.”

In reality, the Church has already completely forgiven John D. Lee, the only man ever held accountable, who was executed for the crime, while over 100 other men were never held accountable by Brigham Young or anyone else, due to their “vow of silence”, which would result in death if broken.

In 1961, the Mormon First Presidency reinstated all of John D. Lee's blessings, including his temple blessings, meaning that they, the Mormon Hierarchy and Prophet, have indeed completely forgiven John D. Lee, as if he did nothing at all and his sins are now white as snow.

"For more than a hundred years, the families of John D. Lee have borne the opprobrium of the massacre alone. For that reason, they have welcomed every effort to probe the question; certainly no truth could be worse than the stories to which they were subjected. Now they have special cause to rejoice, for on April 20, 1961, the First Presidency and the Council of Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints met in joint council, and: 'It was the action of the Council after considering all the facts available that authorization be given for the reinstatement to membership and former blessings [temple marriages] to John D. Lee.' Word of this was sent out to members of the family, and on May 8 and 9, the necessary ordinances were performed in the Salt Lake Temple. A complete record is in the files of the Latter-day Saints Genealogical Society." (Mountain Meadows Massacre, p. 223)

It's hard to understand this reinstating of John D. Lee's complete blessings, when Joseph Smith and Mormon doctrine clearly teaches that Murder is unforgivable, let alone MASS MURDER. Gee, I wonder how they explain this?

I beg all TBMS and Mormon Apologists, to enlighten all of us evil ex-Mormons, as to how this can be. Doesn't this contradict your beloved Joseph Smith and his teachings?

Joseph Smith supposedly received the following revelation from Jesus Christ:


27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

To further support what was recorded in the D&C, Joseph Smith also clearly taught that murderers cannot have eternal life, cannot be saved, cannot be baptized for the remission of sins and that they will all literally go to hell, which must be outer darkness, since hell is not a Mormon glory.

Joseph Smith said:

“A murderer for instance, one that sheds innocent blood, cannot have forgiveness.” (Teachings Of The Prophet Joseph Smith-Page 339)

I also hope that since, Dallin H. Oaks and the Mormon Hierarchy, have now finally admitted that “Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing”, that this will free up the families of those who were brutally executed that day at Mountain Meadows, to finally be able to file a class action lawsuit against the Mormon church and the current Mormon Hierarchy.

This statement by Dallin H. Oaks, admitting fault, also contradicts Hinckley, who said the following on Sept 11, 1999:

"No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it. We can only say that the past is long since gone."


"That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment of the part of the church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful day."

It looks like Hinckley, the current Mormon Prophet and Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle, need to have a private meeting and discuss the massive descrpencies that exist their public statements.

Also, based on the other comment by Dallin H. Oaks, which I just posted, clearly stating that, “It's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true”, this means that even though he admitted that church leaders "were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing” of around 120 innocent men, women and children; you cannot criticize them for it and in fact, he probably wants you to follow his lead and pray that they will all be forgiven, just like they’ve forgiven John D. Lee.

Samuel the Utahnite

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At Wednesday, June 13, 2007, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

Samuel ,

You make a good point , Have you ever tried challenging the FARMS or FAIR idiots over this.

Has King David supposedly lost his exaltation according to mormonism as well ? So why is John D Lee forgiven if he was guilty of it or are they saying he's not guilty afterall ?

Mormonism is one big Headache ! Did you ever wonder how you managed so long in it ?

At Thursday, June 14, 2007, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...

Hey, Thanks Elder Joseph for your comment and I agree that it's a good point, that no Mormon Apologist or TBM would ever want to tackle.

First of all, as I stated in the post, the dumbass Apostle Oaks is admitting that church leaders and Mormons committed the murders, which current Prophet Hinckley pretends to be completely unaware of, at least in 1999, when he lied to the audience at the Mountain Meadows dedication.

Then when you couple that with the fact that they have re-instated John D. Lee to full fellowship and done all of the ordinances for him in the Salt Lake Temple; it just shows what a true, embarrassing, lying sham of a cult Mormonism really is.

I mean holy shit, they've re-instated the man who was considered the main killer, in the Mountain Meadows Massacre....WHY? Oaks prays that the Lord will forgive him when they already have?

Also, to answer your question on King David; yes, Joseph Smith and current General authorities, preach that he is going to or in hell, and has lost his exaltation, while also teaching that he was promised that he wouldn't remain in hell.

So, in summary, typical confusing and contradictory Mormon doctrine teaches that a murderer cannot EVER be forgiven, is going to hell(like King David), can't be baptized, etc, etc, while also teaching that King David is in hell, but won't remain there, even though he has lost his exaltation already. WTF?

So, I guess the Celestial Kingdom is out, but he's looking pretty good for the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom? Actually Mormon doctrine does include murderers in the Telestial Kingdom, so I guess that's where he's going.

So, I guess he'll be with Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini, Stalin, etc and they're punishment is that they can't be with their families and friends and will live in solitary confinement for all eternity, suffering, because they realize they weren't Mormon and didn't get Celestial glory with loved ones and family.

Then again, there's a very good chance that Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini and Stalin never met the missionaries or heard the discussions while slaughtering innocent people on earth; so they can still achieve Celestial glory, after accepting the Gospel in spirit prison, just ask my TBM friend. By the way, aren't all of the Mormon missionaries that have died, teaching these guys right now as we speak, because they were needed on the other side more than they were needed here?

In fact, the Mormon Hierarchy has done Hitler's temple work like 5 times already, so I'm sure he'll probably be in the highest degree of Celestial glory. They wanted to make sure, so they just kept doing it over and over and over, like they do with other people due to a major shortage in names.

But hey, if these mass murderers don't make it to the highest degree, like David won't, since he was a Mormon on earth and screwed up; at least all of their friends and family, from the higher kingdoms, will be able to drop down and say hi to these murdering bastards, right?

However, John D. Lee is looking pretty good for Celestial glory, since he has been reinstated in the Mormon church, with all temple blessings and completely forgiven for his help in slaughtering 120+ unarmed, innocent men, women and children in the name of the Mormon God, as commanded by Brigham Young. How many guys did King David kill or cause to be killed?Things that make you go hmmm, right?

So, it looks like King David got the massive Mormon shaft and the Mormon God is being pretty unjust and unfair, which is impossible, because if he is ever unjust, then He(God) will cease to be God...LOL!! I guess we were just able to show that the Mormon God has ceased to be what? I mean look at the world...and it now makes sense; there is a Mormon God, but he is fallen and here we are, all alone now.


Like they say, Mormon doctrine is simply beautiful and beautifully simple...LMAO!!


At Thursday, June 14, 2007, Blogger Elder Joseph said...


You said

"Like they say, Mormon doctrine is simply beautiful and beautifully simple"


Man this is what one of the bishopric said to me when I gave him a grilling over polygamy once... he said the reason for polygamy was to look after widows ?

I told him straight about Josephs teen brides and others ( all single )and already married ones and the fact that out of about 33 wives only two were widows anyway !I told him about Todd Compton's research ......

His response was Todd's an apostate ? lol and yes you guessed it , he said " The Gospel is simply beautiful and beautifully simple" lol

Now I know where they get these sayings from , does anyone have their own mind left in this church ? When I read Ensigns and Church talks I can see where everone gets there vocabularly from and become programmed morg bots !No one is individual anymore.

I realised then that I'm up against people with no reason or common sense or rational mind.

My friend told me that the following Sunday in Fast and Testimony ( I missed that day ) that he was bragging how he had to defend the church ?? lol That was about me ! hahahahha But he didn't defend anything really cos he looked a right twit afterwards !

I do feel sorry for him though but he challenged me first .

Real Truth is the downfall of this religion ... and we have it on our side .

At Tuesday, May 03, 2011, Blogger Nathan Corry said...

I am a little puzzled by your bloger display name. The Book of Mormon teaches that Samuel the Lamanite was a Prophet of God. Why would you identify yourself so stongly with the Book of Mormon? It was Samuel the Lamanite that Said 29O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye astiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?

At Tuesday, May 03, 2011, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...

I'm very puzzled & outraged by your utter lack of response to the awful FACTS & statements in this post, regarding the Mountain Meadows Massacre & the comments of your beloved "Apostle" Dallin Hoaks, while instead choosing to be "puzzled" by my choice of name, which was VERY DELIBERATE by the way & obviously WAY OVER YOUR HEAD. You didn't think I knew who the fictious "Samuel the Lamanite" is? Have you even spent ONE second researching who I am & my background or even reading my profile here on blogger? My choice of name is more troublesome to you than MORmON leaders mass murdering innocent men, women, children & babies in the name of YOUR GOD? WOW...GOOD TO KNOW!!

So NOTHING in this post even bothered you for a second eh? Do you have a conscience or a heartbeat...are you alive or just a brainwashed, clueless MORmON zombie?!! Once again, Good to know!! Do you also pray for the forgiveness of MASS MURDERERS of innocent men, women, children & babies(Hitler, Stalin, David Koresh, John D. Lee, etc) as your "Apostle" Dallin Hoaks does(with your full support), especially those MURDERED by MORmONS, as Hoaks admits happened at Mountain Meadows?!!

By the way, how do YOU explain John D. Lee(who was sealed to Brigham Young/his adopted son/confessed mass murderer & excommunicated & executed for his horrific crimes) being fully reinstated to the church(including all of his polygamous wives & children) & completely forgiven for his mass murders in 1961 by your precious "FIRST PRESIDENCY" who supposedly takes their orders directly from "JESUS CHRIST" himself, who they pretend to be special witnesses of(what does that mean anyway)? Are you okay with you also support that? That last question was rhetorical of course! So "Jesus Christ" directly ordered them to forgive & reinstate John D. Lee, right?!! Is that what you believe happened? So I'm now in worse shape than John D. Lee, a convicted mass murderer of men, women, children & babies?!!! Explain this to me PLEASE!! An open MORmON apostate is worse than a mass murderer? Worse than a pedophile?(Joseph Smith or any other MORmON pedophile who they also pray will be forgiven & that they'll have ZERO remorse for anything they've done & peace after repenting, which you also fully support, right?)

I was born in the church, served a 2 year HONORABLE mission in Argentina, spent 2 months in the MTC, spent 4 years at BYU & got married in the San Diego temple & NEVER doubted the church was true EVEN ONCE, until I learned THE TRUTH & FACTS of MORmON history & doctrines. I also held many many callings in the MORmON CULT(in most classes I was the ONLY one raising my hand to contribute & answer questions, if I wasn't the teacher) before realizing it was all a gigantic fraud & lie, which you of course embrace whole-heartedly, without any regard for truth or even human rights or decency!

It is YOU who has chosen, defended, justified & embraced darkness, hatred, bigotry(including horrific racism, sexism & homophobia), polygamy/polyandry(which includes serial/secret adultery, child brides/pedophilia & child rape) & the open & proud condemnation of EVERYONE & EVERY CHURCH that isn't MORmON. THAT is what YOU PROUDLY BELIEVE & STAND FOR!!

I've "chosen darkness?" REALLY?! At least I reject the horrific things that you call "light" & proudly & knowingly embrace & EVEN DEFEND on the Internet. Can people really be that stupid & clueless or devoid of any morals & values, to still accept, defend, justify & embrace the horrors of MORmONISM, AFTER learning THE TRUTH? Apparently so!!

How embarrassing...WAKE UP DUDE!!


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